Sneaky Jedi Build

[Paul]

Here are some ideas for the sneaky Jedi build that is currently being played by Joel.

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I think the build would most benefit by taking levels in scout rather than Jedi. At least until he can take one level in master to gain serenity. That also depends on what combination from the choices below you like. Some of these talents are Jedi knight, master, or scout. Choosing a path early would be wise, that way you can plan ahead.

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Some really good feat choices would be:

Cunning Attack: +2 on attacks where your opponent is flat footed.

Covert Operatives: +3 on stealth checks and +1 for each ally (up to 7) that also has the Covert Operatives feat.

Flurry: Take a -5 on your reflex defense to gain a +2 on your next melee attack roll. If you were to go this route, I would invest in Shii-Cho.

Powerful Charge: You might as well make that sneak attack a charge to gain +2 bonus on the attack roll and + ½ level damage. If you were to go this route, I would invest in surge.

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Some really good talent choices would be:

Ghost Assailant: If you start your turn with total concealment or total cover, make a stealth check as a swift action vs target's perception to treat them as flatfooted.

- This talent would work well with the cunning attack feat. The trick would be to have total concealment which I think "cloak" grants you total concealment.

Improved Stealth: You can reroll stealth checks, but must take the result even if worse.

Hidden Movement: You can move your normal speed while using stealth. Prerequisite = Improved Stealth.

Disciplined Strike: You can exclude a number of targets equal to your wisdom modifier from cone effect force powers.

Improved Healing Boost: Add twice your class level when using vital transfer.*

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*I noticed you didn't think that vital transfer is decent, but other than using a med pack once per 24 hours the party has no way to heal themselves. Since you really didn't build the character you can choose to change your vital transfer powers to something else for a more custom build to your desire.

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Hypothetical situation: You see a bad guy and go cloaked. With cunning attack you'd attack at a +2 as long as that bad guy is flat footed. You decide to surge giving you the powerful charge attack with +2 on the attack roll + 1/2 character level damage. While you are at it you decide flurry looks good here as well (even though you can use it every round) add another +2 to that attack roll and -5 reflex defense. But wait there is more. Lets battle strike, giving you at least a +1 on the attack roll and +1d6 damage. With your high use the force you should be able to pull the max 3d6 damage. You spring your attack and combat begins (+7 on the attack, +3d6+1/2 level damage.) You'd then cloak again the next round. On round three you would use ghost assailant to try and get the target flat footed again. If you succeed then you’d get the +2 on the attack again. Every 3rd turn you’d be able to hit and run. You can do this until you run out of cloaks, but with force focus you could run away enough and use the full round action to gain a cloak back. You can also spend a force point to regain a spent force power.

[Paul]

You really have two choices with the character.

Continue with the sneak attack build - for that you need to focus primarily on scout levels.

Or

Focus on the Jedi abilities - Jedi levels -

Taking the Jedi abilities is a more powerful route, but the sneak attack build is REALLY unique. If done correctly you can do some major damage. So many cool choices!!!

I encourage the sneaky build for one big reason. It is really unique. The Jedi route is so over done and cliche that if we ever start Star Wars over I am going to avoid playing a Jedi at all costs.

Shadow Striker is one really cool talent imo. Your can make (once per encounter) your opponent only have a swift action next turn! This means you can recharge your attack that I mentioned in the post above without getting wacked too hard!


We can talk more on this later.

[Paul]

Found some interesting things:

A Jedi Talent:

Exposing Strike: When you use a light saber to deal damage to a target, you can spend a Force Point to make that target flat-footed until the end of your next turn.

or

Scout Talent:

Ghost Assailant: If you start your turn with total concealment or total cover, make a stealth check as a swift action vs target's perception to treat them as flatfooted.

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They both have their advantages.

Each of them needs something to happen to make them go off.

Comparing the two GA seems more likely to happen. You should have high success with using GA, but GA is only as good as many 'cloaks' you have. If you can't cloak, you probably don't have total concealment. There are other ways to get total concealment but for this build cloak is the best. You could also get more cloaks, but you do have force focus and Recall would be a nice talent to regain lost force powers.

With ES you need to spend a force point to make it go off. The biggest advantage of ES is that you do not have to spend a swift action you spend a force point. Considering that we don't use force points a lot this isn't a bad thing. You could also look into force point recovery or other ways to get more force points. The downfall to ES is you need to hit first, but you don't need to use 'cloak' for this to work. If you hit you spend a force point, and with Cunning Attack you would still get the +2 on your next attack vs that target.

They both should stack with Cunning Attack.

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ES doesn't really fit the stealth approach you have. GA in this function is just adding a better attack when uncloaking to attack.

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Found more jedi talents:

Sentinel Strike:
Any time you attack a flat-footed opponenot (or one who is denited its dexterity bonus to reflex defense against you_ with a damge - dealing force power or attack with a light saber you deal an extra 1d6 damage with that attack. You can select this talent up to five times for 5d6 extra damage.

Sentinel's Observation:
If you have concealment against a target, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against that target.

[sirblank]

I think I want to go the sneaky build. I'm interested in a straight up Jedi/Jedi Knight class at a later time followed possibly by a sniper build character, but those are later thoughts.

As for Mr. Blank - I'm partial to GA, CA, SS and SO. Obviously can't pick all of those as they are in different classes anyway, but my thought was more along the lines of sneaky Jedi Assassin because lets face it that would just be cool.

Basically anything that improves my attack chances while cloaked and also increases the damage while cloaked is the path I want to take. This means I'll still need to take some of both classes. I think go scout this level and take GA and CA. Not sure I can take both of those, but get those first, then go jedi and get the sentinel strike a couple times.

[Paul]

I like where you are going with this.

IMO Ghost Assailant is a must with this build. The reason being is you will be able to force your opponents into being flat footed to set up your feats and talents. I keep forgetting to say that if an opponent is flat footed they do not get their dexterity bonus for reflex defense. Not only do you get a bonus to your attacks (later on with cunning attack) but the opponent loses dexterity bonus.

Just to put that into perspective (and I'm bored and like to ramble) If you were attacking Kahn (Jim's character) his reflex defense of 35 would drop to 32. With GA+CA that is a swing of 5 in your favor, -3 for him +2 for you. Also just so Jim doesn't feel like he is being singled out, PoW (Geoff's character) in this example would change from 31 to 27 for you that is a swing of 6, -4 for him +2 for you. To further along with this lets say you attack Rory, oops doesn't help due to Rory not having a dexterity bonus to reflex (he isn't very limber), you'd just get your +2 in this instance. However I don't think Rory can block you.

I also started reading that flat footed opponents can't take reactions. If this is true then people can't block / deflect / negate energy, etc. Seems like a nice debate over on wotc forums:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/27589121/Reacting_while_surprised

I'm now thinking that for future games I'll institute a house rule that reactions cannot be taken flat-footed.

This quoted text above seems like the best way to wade through the mud of what people can and can't do flat footed. We can decide to go through every single situation (no thanks) or just agree to the above quote.

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I read through the entire thread at wotc. I feel that once combat is started then targets can block, but if combat hasn't started and you just go backstab someone that is not aware of the threat then no block should be possible. They are still flat footed with your feats/talents during combat but imo they'd be combat ready and know you are going to come from somewhere. Also holding ones action to "block" would allow the target to block.

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Also with improved cloak, there is no reason why you can't be cloaked and phased.

With all that extra stuff I found out, you are making quite a dangerous character.

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Taking scout at 11 lets you get GA as a scout talent. You do not get a feat.

Level 12 gets VERY interesting for you. Mainly because you could take a level in Jedi Master. IMO there is only two good reasons for that, serenity and the extra bonus to your defensive score. However you'd lose some to your sneaky build. What I mean by that is you will miss out on a chance for something. You also get to improve two abilities scores by one at level 12.

To take Sentinel Strike or Sentinel's Observation you need to take levels in straight "Jedi." Which sounds a little boring that you are not taking knight or master levels but with Jedi levels you get more feats.

Exciting!

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To hell with it, I'm SUPER BORED!

OK looks like you are taking scout at 11. Here are the possibilities for you at level 12.

Jedi:
Two Feats: I'd prolly take cunning attack and Covert Operatives. CA is a the best choice here and covert operatives can be swapped out with many things.
No Talents

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Jedi Knight:
One Feat: CA
One Force Technique: Umm ahhh no idea here. Force point recovery, Improved Phase or maybe Improved Ballistakinesis (3x3 square instead of 2x2)
No Talents:

Jedi Master:
One Feat: CA
One Talent: I have no idea what master talent would fit your build. Disciplined Strike lets you choose which targets are affected for cone effects (force slam). Damage Reduction 10, spend a force point and get 10 less damage per time you are hit for one minute.
Serenity and defense bonus: Mediate for a full round and next attack or use the force check is 20.

Scout:
Two Feats: I'd prolly take cunning attack and Covert Operatives. CA is a the best choice here and covert operatives can be swapped out with many things.
No Talents

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I hope you don't mind me doing this. I am VERY bored and know the system VERY well. I just like to help. I've done this with the others too, mostly verbal.

Looking at level 12 Scout and Jedi seem to be almost the same.
The difference between scout and Jedi for 12 is where you are going for 13. That difference is which Jedi or scout talent you'd want. Improved Stealth (best one I can see) for scout, or Sentinel Strike or Sentinel's Observation for Jedi.

IMO Jedi looks better. Your sneak attack (which BTW is also scoundrel talent which does the same as Sentinel Strike) will either be boosted by hit or damage depending on which Sentinel talent you take. You'd also have 4 more hp taking Jedi. lol

[sirblank]

Hey, three questions (armor related): 1) What is a stunned cloak, camouflage? 2) Would this help my character without killing his stealth abilities? 3) If so, how can I get one?

[Paul]

Never heard of a stunned cloak.
Where did you hear it from?


EDIT:
Found a stun cloak in the Galaxy at War book.
It is just armor that shocks someone when they touch you.

[sirblank]

I was updating my character sheet through that excel file and was looking at the various armors and such and saw it there.

[Paul]

Armor is really bad in this system. Jim's guy wears armor but he had to take 3 talents to make it worth it.

[sirblank]

Noted. I was just looking for like a stealth cloak or something when I went through, because really, how often do Jedi wear armor?

[sirblank]

What do you recommend I swap Covert Ops out with?

[Paul]

Nothing.

Maybe unstopable force. You need to remember you have that. You get a +5 on your will and fort defense scores vs force powers.

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The way I see level 11 is you take a level in scout. You'd then get GA as a talent. Update HPs and attacks bonuses and done.

Level 12 you have two feats to choose from and two abilities to raise. 12 is BIG!!

[Paul]

Just because it is fresh in my mind:

Taking Soldier at level 12 = 1 Feat, 1 Talent, 1 Multiclass Feat.

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Shadowsuit
Light Armor
Used by assassins and burglars, the shadowsuit manufactured by Ayelixe / Krongbing Textiles is little more than a black body stocking covering the wearer's entire body. Shadowsuits are made from a tough but soft material known as shadowsilk that absorbs light and sound. The hands and feet of the shadowsuit have sound-dampening pads that reduce the noise made by the wearer. A shadowsuit grants a +5 equipment bonus to Stealth checks whenever the wearer has concealment from darkness or low-light conditions. If any armor or clothing is worn over the shadowsuit, this bonus is lost.

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OK The armor only adds to the bonus in darkness or low light conditions.

However if you are going to go this route that makes your choices of feats EASY.

Feat = Cunning Attack
Multiclass feat = Armor Proficiency (Light)
Talent = Armored Defense

Taking that combination treats your defensive scores as normal and a +1 to fortitude.

Fort = 24 / Ref = 27 / Will = 27 / HP = 122
Damage Threshold = 24

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Scout:
Two Feats: I'd prolly take cunning attack and Covert Operatives

Fort = 23 / Ref = 27 / Will = 27 / HP = 120
Damage Threshold = 23

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You can interchange these levels as you like. What you get at 12 for one you can get at 13 for the other and vice versa. I will need to advance the builds further to see how much taking a level in soldier takes away from the pure scout build.

I lean more to scout at 12 now, simply because when you take soldier at 12 and scout at 13 you'd need to take Covert Operatives as a character class then cunning attack at 13 as a class feat. However I've never been a stickler for these things as you could just "retrain" them accordingly. So this entire section is rather useless. lol

I will advance the builds tomorrow if I can find the time.

[dan]

What I have on the guys we faced was shadow trooper armor with the shadowskin modification, and then it was dark armor with stealth which helped avoid detection.

Shadowskin is in Scum and Villainy on page 47, which gives a +5 equipment bonus to stealth.


As for the armor I saw it mentioned somewhere, but no stats for it in the books that I can find right now. Same thing with Shadow Guard armor, which is used by the shadow guards. I wish they would put stats easily to find for them.

[Paul]

This is the entry from SaV. There is also the exact same armor in the clone wars book. I didn't see shadow guard.