Force Grip Issues

[Paul]

Force Grip
You use the Force to choke or crush your enemy. Time: Standard action.
Target: One target within 6 squares or within line of sight.
Make a Use the Force check. The result of the check determines the effect, if any:
DC 15: If you’re Use the Force check equals or exceeds the target’s damage threshold, the target takes 2d6 points of damage and can only take a single swift action on his next turn. Otherwise, the target takes half damage and may act normally, and you may not maintain the power.
DC 20: As DC 15, except the target takes 4d6 points of damage.
DC 25: As DC 15, except target takes 6d6 points of damage.


Choice #1 - Leave it alone that is how wotc intended it.

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Choice #2 -
The user rolls their use force ability and that is the base difficulty for the grip. For example let’s say Dan uses grip on Dude1. Dan rolls a 25 on his check.

DC 25: As DC 15, except target takes 6d6 points of damage.

Dude1 has a fortitude defense of 19. First round as normal but the second round the base difficulty is reduced by a number (trying to determine what # would be fair) lets just use 5 for this example. So a new roll isn't needed but the difficulty is now 20. The 20 is high enough to beat the defense of dude1 so he is still affected. There are two options here:

Option #1
DC is now 20 and that results in: As DC 15, except the target takes 4d6 points of damage.
Or
Option #2
Use the original roll for damage (25), but use the difficulty of 20 to determine only if dude1 is hurt.

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Choice #3
The user rolls their use force ability and that is the base difficulty for the grip. For example let’s say Dan uses grip on Dude1. Dan rolls a 25 on his check.
DC 25: As DC 15, except target takes 6d6 points of damage.
Dude1 has a fortitude defense of 19.

Next round a new roll is needed but the user (Dan) would suffer a -3 (cumulative) to his use force check.

Dan rolls a total of 23.

There are two options here:

Option #1
DC 20: As DC 15, except the target takes 4d6 points of damage.
Essentially using the result of the roll.
Or
Option #2
Use the original roll for damage (25), but use the difficulty of 23 to determine only if dude1 is hurt.


This is the closest to how it originally is, but with a cumulative of -3. Option #2 is just using the original roll for damage and the modded roll for success or failure.

[Paul]

Test #1
First round = Dan’s Force skill check = 28
Dude’s Fort Def = 19
DC 25: As DC 15, except target takes 6d6 points of damage. - 21 Damage

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2nd round
Option #1 – 28-5=23 - DC 20: As DC 15, except the target takes 4d6 points of damage. 15 Damage

Option #2 - Use the original roll for damage (28), but use the difficulty of 23 to determine only if dude1 is hurt. DC 25: As DC 15, except target takes 6d6 points of damage. - 26 Damage

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3rd Round
Option #1 – 23-5=18 – This result doesn’t equal or exceed the target’s damage threshold, the target takes half damage (2D6) and may act normally, and you may not maintain the power. Damage = 3

Option #2 - Use the original roll for damage (28), but use the difficulty of 18 to determine only if dude1 is HURT. This result doesn’t equal or exceed the target’s damage threshold.

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Option #1 total damage = 21+15+3= 39 – rounds maintained = 2 1/2
Option #2 total damage = 21+26 = 47 – rounds maintained = 2

[Paul]

The differences in the choices are broken down like this.
I may adjust the #s for the different options, -3 or -5 etc. Still need to play test this idea.

Choice #2
You have one single roll that determines the overall affect.

Option #1
The new unrolled result is what you use, but if you don’t beat the targets damage threshold you get to do DC 15: the target takes half damage and may act normally, and you may not maintain the power. The advantage is longer sustained attack the disadvantage is you are stuck with the original roll.

Option #2
The original roll results in the overall affect. If the adjusted roll check doesn’t equal or exceed the target’s damage threshold, then the attack is assumed to miss and nothing happens. The advantage is a lot of damage quick; the disadvantage is you are stuck with the original roll.

Choice #3
You re roll every round that determines the overall affects.

Option #1
The new rolled result is what you use, but if you don’t beat the targets damage threshold you get to do DC 15: the target takes half damage and may act normally, and you may not maintain the power. The advantage is longer sustained attack.

Option #2
The original roll results in the overall affect. If the re rolled roll check doesn’t equal or exceed the target’s damage threshold, then the attack is assumed to miss and nothing happens. The advantage is a lot of damage quick; the disadvantage is you are stuck with the original roll.

[Paul]

I thought of another way, leave the skill as is, but only allow a standard action.

My thoughts on that.

I'm fighting some guy on the street. He starts to choke me, what is stopping me from punching him in the nose?

To relate to Star Wars, what is stoping me from shooting him or walking up to him and punching him?

The only thing we'd need to put figure out his how fast a person can move while being gripped and how fast a person gripping can move.

[dan]

I'm thinking the only allow a standard action would be good. Give them half movement, and an attack or move. This way they can try to get an attack off, blaster etc to break the hold, or move in closer to where they can get one. This would also let them have a chance at running around a corner and breaking the hold that way.

The other way that I think would be good is the reroll each round, and do the -# to the roll. Still use the number rolled for damage just not against the check. So a check of 25 beats the 19 def first round, the 20 beats it 2nd round then the 3rd round a 24 fails to beat it as its a -6. If we use the 3.

[Paul]

Surge should work against grip. I asked on the site I've been asking about and he said surge wouldn't work that grip holds the person in place. Now my thoughts on that are if grip holds the person in place then what is stoping the user from smashing the person being gripped into the wall over and over again.

So we need to determine if grips holds the person in place.

The rule doesn't say anything about that, it only says that it allows the person being gripped to use one swift action. Surge is a swift action.

The errata changes a lot for the power as well, changing the range for grip from 6m to 12m.

Ugh

[Paul]

I found this offical response on the wizards site:
However this is for the revised rules, but I don't think they'd change this ruling from revised to saga.


Q: Another question about Force Grip: After reading that it works on droids, my group's 4th-level Jedi PCs tried it out while fighting a destroyer droid. Our guardians had a lot of trouble hurting the
droid, but because it has no VP and Force Grip deals damage even on a successful save, our consulars deactivated it in just 1 round. Is this the way it should be? Does the shield count against the damage?


A: First, damage reduction applies against Force Grip and all other Force skills unless specifically stated otherwise. Second, the destroyer droid actually has two sources of damage reduction -- armor and shields -- and damage reduction from shields stacks with the damage reduction of whatever is "underneath" the shields. Thus, the destroyer droid should have had some very strong protection that would make Force Grip's 3d6 points of damage almost trivial, and your group of 4th-level Jedi would have had a serious fight on their hands.